Leviathans changing the face of warfare

[jimdigris]

How would the invention of Leviathans change how wars are fought?
You might not need to invent tanks because you have these mobile fortresses that can lay down heavy barages anywhere on the planet.  There wouldn't have been the stalemate of the trenches during WW1 because you could simply park your Leviathans over the enemy trenches and blast away.  Wet navies might be dramatically reduced because troops and vital supplies will go by air.
I'm not sure how they would handle airplane development.
TPTB can keep the game going by updating the storyline in this manner.

[Jim1701]

One thing to remember is that as large as you make cannons for shipboard uses, you can make much larger for land use.  I don't doubt that Leviathan would have a big impact on warfare but they would not be able to operate with impunity.  Plus, remember trench warfare occurred in the first place because armies had trouble adapting to new weapons such as the machine gun and heavy artillery (to say nothing of the introduction of nerve weapons such as mustard gas.) 

[jimdigris]

Right, but the Leviathan is the heavy artillery and machine guns.  And you don't have to charge the enemy trenches for that; they come to you.

[Jim1701]

You don't win wars without a land army so trench warfare won't be going anywhere.  Just more dead soldiers and deeper trenches.

[StCptMara]

You don't win wars without a land army so trench warfare won't be going anywhere.  Just more dead soldiers and deeper trenches.

See...I do not think that Leviathans will be engendering to static warfare. That requires being able to build defensive fortifications that cannot
be attacked. All it takes is some brilliant minds to come up with the idea of armored troop carrier Leviathans, and then, you have Trenches
becoming mostly pointless. On top of that, if they start taking away the things that make Aerial torpedoes detonate at a set range, then those
could be used for long range bombardment(especially if you make them so they can glide!).

[jimdigris]

If you were an aircraft designer, how would your designs evolve with the presence of Leviathans in combat?

[foxbat]

Simple : no aircraft. Since ether works, you have no need to develop an engine that can on its own take something heavier than air off the ground. Ether is more efficient, too efficient for it to be economically viable to think of the airplane. Perhaps for a sports niche, but Science will go in a different direction altogether.

Furthermore, the physionomy of the world will be altered completely. No water cuts, no land masses to impede continuous movement... Historical Capitals become immensely vulnerable to enemy action, the only saving grace being that the size, and smoke, of the Levs will make them detected way long before an engagement. Since they combine armor, movement and firepower in a way no other arm can, they become the "ultima ratio regum" which needs to be improved, and protected at all costs to preserve the safety of the state. Going on a limb, I admit, I figure mountainous areas become a nation's assets rather than its outback. There, mountains can offer a modicum of protection, restricting the angles of fire on  Lev support installations, and good elevated sites to emplace the equivalent of AA guns (quick firing 12 inchers anyone?  )
Roads, railways, all land surface transportation will tend towards these areas to help service the Levs, seeing the growth of townships in areas where today you have a scattered habitat. Taking France as an example, I'm seeing the center mountains of the Massif Central become the hub from which Ganys are readied for action... it would be quite possible that Paris would lose its capital status in favor of Clermont-Ferrand.
The Leviathan world is utterly different frropm the one we are acquainted with! 

[vondertom]

Levs would also become heavy bombers, not just gun platforms.  More efficient to drop bombs than fire guns from above. This would also make trench warfare more problematical.

I note that most posters see  troop-carrying Levs as the obvious military evolution.  I absolutely agree.  Every nation would have at least enought (dozen?) transports to carry a division or so for rapid deployment. Terrain and (most) weather issues would become irrelevant.  French surprise descent on Dover?  Italian troops transported quickly to Somaliland to reinforce threatened garrisons? 

That is why I'm a bit disappointed when I made these points earlier in hopes of seeing a transport model produced for scenario purposes, and being told that in this universe,  ether is too expensive for shipping.  Bollocks.  Military transport would be more valuable than another battleship at a fairly early point in air navy development.  Not for tactical reasons, but for the more important strategic rationales.

[jimdigris]

Simple : no aircraft. Since ether works, you have no need to develop an engine that can on its own take something heavier than air off the ground. Ether is more efficient, too efficient for it to be economically viable to think of the airplane. Perhaps for a sports niche, but Science will go in a different direction altogether.

Furthermore, the physionomy of the world will be altered completely. No water cuts, no land masses to impede continuous movement... Historical Capitals become immensely vulnerable to enemy action, the only saving grace being that the size, and smoke, of the Levs will make them detected way long before an engagement. Since they combine armor, movement and firepower in a way no other arm can, they become the "ultima ratio regum" which needs to be improved, and protected at all costs to preserve the safety of the state. Going on a limb, I admit, I figure mountainous areas become a nation's assets rather than its outback. There, mountains can offer a modicum of protection, restricting the angles of fire on  Lev support installations, and good elevated sites to emplace the equivalent of AA guns (quick firing 12 inchers anyone?  )
Roads, railways, all land surface transportation will tend towards these areas to help service the Levs, seeing the growth of townships in areas where today you have a scattered habitat. Taking France as an example, I'm seeing the center mountains of the Massif Central become the hub from which Ganys are readied for action... it would be quite possible that Paris would lose its capital status in favor of Clermont-Ferrand.
The Leviathan world is utterly different frropm the one we are acquainted with! 

Very interesting.

Levs would also become heavy bombers, not just gun platforms.  More efficient to drop bombs than fire guns from above. This would also make trench warfare more problematical.

I note that most posters see  troop-carrying Levs as the obvious military evolution.  I absolutely agree.  Every nation would have at least enought (dozen?) transports to carry a division or so for rapid deployment. Terrain and (most) weather issues would become irrelevant.  French surprise descent on Dover?  Italian troops transported quickly to Somaliland to reinforce threatened garrisons? 

That is why I'm a bit disappointed when I made these points earlier in hopes of seeing a transport model produced for scenario purposes, and being told that in this universe,  ether is too expensive for shipping.  Bollocks.  Military transport would be more valuable than another battleship at a fairly early point in air navy development.  Not for tactical reasons, but for the more important strategic rationales.

I agree with you on troop transports.  We may not have massive Atlantic convoys on ether, but it would make sense for at least a few troop transports in each nation's inventory.

[trboturtle]

Levs would also become heavy bombers, not just gun platforms.  More efficient to drop bombs than fire guns from above. This would also make trench warfare more problematical.

I could see Levs with bomb bays dropping thounds of bombs either on a ground target, or on another Levs. It would help bring the third dimension -- height -- into play.

Craig

[Welshman]

Some of it is a mindset evolution. The nations in Levs are just now entering the post coal industrial age. Flying is a new concept to them and because they took to flying in a way that extended their naval tradition, it will probably be a while before they think in ways we modern people see as natural.

As I recall, the first airplane bombs were hand dropped grenades from biplanes. Wasn't it not really until WWII that aerial bombing became common?

You've just spent centuries fighting major battles at sea, you can now fly your naval ships in the air, but you still think like a sailor.

Bit of a culture shock if you think about it.

[StCptMara]

Now, I can see the advantages of developing airplanes. Overall, they are going to be faster then a Leviathan. However, I see the cultural
impact of the Leviathans perhaps slowing down airplane development. The Wright Brothers did still fly, right?

Advantages that could be seen for airplanes in a military role right now: Less resource intensive to build, faster.
Disadvantages to Leviathans: Cannot engage leviathans, have short ranges from a fixed point of supply.

Likely uses for airplanes at this point in the Leviathans Setting: Scouting missions around border regions, Courier

Now, eventually? We might see something like WW2, where Carriers are important because the planes can carry stuff
that can hurt a Leviathan...but, that is a big, big "might." Nothing can guarantee that the Navy will make that leap to experiment.

However, developing parachutes in the Leviathans setting? That could totally change things. RL, we cannot have that many people
fit in a plane to drop off. But, imagine if, instead of the Marines becoming known for Amphibious Assaults, they became known for
Airborne Assaults off of Leviathans...

One thing is that Leviathans might, actually, have parachutes developed earlier, due to a desire to try and find ways to save the lives
of crew on a ship that is going down. The military DOES care about its sailors in this time frame, right?

[Pik]

Actually, some air fleets DO have Lev Troop Transports (see: Topaze).

[Van Gogh]

    The one problem I see with Levborne infantry is the need to supply the troops you ferry on the long term (i.e. more than one day). Your troopers need food, ammunition and relief that must be also brought daily by air, hopefully without interference from the enemy. It may take a couple of very problematic battles (think Ia Drang / Primosole / Arnhem / Airbridge to Stalingrad with WW1 generals) to understand that.
    And even with good tactics and planning, I doubt it is feasible on a meaningful scale: just look at the logistics deployed on the French side at Verdun just to hold against a determined assault. How many Levs do you need to move that much tonnage and at which frequency ? How many hands to fill the holds and empty them ? How many escorts ? How many  support structures (coal, oil, electroid) ? Couldn't that just be used to support a simple, traditional advance ?
    So helping a stranded company at Rorke's drift or Bidon 5 ? Yes. Taking by surprise and holding the enemy capital with a division or a corps ? Doubtful.

[jimdigris]

The knowledge that there is a sizable enemy force behind you can sometimes be enough to get a force to retreat.