when?

[pianobar]

Let's not get too personal in the responses, guys.  Not only does it achieve nothing, it's also against the forum rules.
If you object to something that's been said, address that directly, rather than verbally analyzing motivations.

Agreed.

We can all agree that the delay isn't what we want to see happening.

We should also all agree to not post things that could be taken as personal attacks against another poster. Oh, wait, we did when we joined. Let's keep it clean, and keep the frustration aimed away from fellow gamers.

[trboturtle]

Let me make this clear --- I understand and I am as frustrated as Lokitbc is. But the problem is not on CGL end of things, but with the companies producing the actual product. The game is done -- it just has to be produced.

Short of someone going over to China and watching the process, CGL is at the mercy of other people who do not share the same passion for this game. CGL isn't the only one who has had bad experences over there, but its still a lot cheaper to make the game over there than it is to do it over here.

Believe me, Randal is as frustrated as everyone else is......

Craig

[StCptMara]

Believe me, Randal is as frustrated as everyone else is......

And he is on his second Baby Seal Plushie...

[daburton]

Question. Are the minis made by the same company that owns Wargames Factory?  After reading about that fiasco last year on TMP (from Wargames Factory and the original founders), I know I steer completely clear of their product.  Seems like delay is a motto at that place.  Would it be an issue of retooling to move to a different manufacturer or do the molds go with the contract (ie do you guys own the molds?).  With all these delays (for both the BT and Leviathans projects) I wonder if it wouldnt be better to try to move production to a different company there to get a more timely turnaround on your products.  Thanks
Doug

[Worktroll]

From the sounds of it, the moulds remain the property of the factory, not the game company. Which does make life a little more constrained at the moment.

W.

[Earlydawn]

Please reconsider the Captain's Manual issue. I understand that it resides at a higher level than the Leviathans unit, but I simply can't hook people on the starter rules. Games by me survive on rules. People i know buy massive armies and premium rules additions when they dig the core rules. The core set is a big investment with no look at the real ruleset.

I'm sorry to be barebones realistic, but the CO's manual will be torrentable a month after the game comes out anyway. Better to put out what you have ready and reinforce enthusiasm than bet the farm on a box set with a mushy date and end up "giving away" the print anyway. I know that sucks, but it is reality. The creative commons starter was a great concept. Keep going! If you rules it, they will buy!

Just my  .02. You've got my business either way, but I'm curious why the excellent creative commons stratgy has ground to a halt with the heart of the system. I'd probably commit to both fleet boxes right now if I could confirm that the real rule set is as awesome as i think it will be.

[jimdigris]

Could we be given the option of pre-ordering the box set with the option of downloading the Captain's manual pdf once the pre-order has been paid for?

[Earlydawn]

Fantastic idea.

[StCptMara]

Please reconsider the Captain's Manual issue. I understand that it resides at a higher level than the Leviathans unit, but I simply can't hook people on the starter rules. Games by me survive on rules. People i know buy massive armies and premium rules additions when they dig the core rules. The core set is a big investment with no look at the real ruleset.

I'm sorry to be barebones realistic, but the CO's manual will be torrentable a month after the game comes out anyway. Better to put out what you have ready and reinforce enthusiasm than bet the farm on a box set with a mushy date and end up "giving away" the print anyway. I know that sucks, but it is reality. The creative commons starter was a great concept. Keep going! If you rules it, they will buy!

I keep hoping for a comment on this from Randall or someone who can say. I do not think it needs to be reconsidered, because I do not think Randall has ever given it serious
consideration. I would love to know if Randall or the people who can influence him have sat down and discussed the merits and flaws of releasing the full rules as a PDF. And, in fact, I would love to HEAR the pros and cons, and why they have decided not to do so.

[ApokalypseTest]

@StCptMara:

If you read one of the last blog-entries you will see that they indeed seriously considered it (and dismissed it) - I think the bottomline was that it was considered to risqué at the time being.
Ultimately you could play the game without ever buying the box if you got the commanders manual and I guess that for CGL a LOT rides on selling the box well.

While it would be interesting to see the reasons in detail, I don't really think it would improve the situation - some people would accept them, others would not and in the end it would just start another circle of arguments.

[purplephoenix]

I'm not up to date about that "pdf issue". Do we already know which books will be released as pdf? I'd be really interessted in the Gazetteer! And do the last comments imply that either CGL does not want to release the Manuals as pdf before the box is available for sale or will the manuals not be released as pdf at all?

[trboturtle]

I personally would suggest maybe releasing a couple of the rules sections now would help until the box comes out. Not the whole thing, but one or two sections that would deepen the play.

Craig

[Tonbo Karasu]

@StCptMara:

If you read one of the last blog-entries you will see that they indeed seriously considered it (and dismissed it) - I think the bottomline was that it was considered to risqué at the time being.

  what's in it?  French dancing girls from the Folies, or Moulin Rouge? 

I now have this image of Leviathan Nose Art, on those patrolling destroyers. 

Karasu