Discount on final release for "Primer" buyers??

[EasyEight]

Hi,
If I invest some cash to get your primer rule set, will I be able to get an "early adopter" discount on the final rules?? I enjoy naval and air combat games, and loved Sky Galleons of Mars when it was around many moons ago, but don't really want to buy a set of rules twice. Thanks in advance for your reply.
EE

[grabula]

I'm actually sort of surprised about the decision to charge for 'previews'. Even though the price isn't high, I think all game companies should provide some free previews of games they write.  I think it sells more games when a player can sit down with a quick start rules set or see some sneak peeks without first having to pay.  Right now if you purchased everything "out" for leviathan you'd have paid what 6$ or 7$ us?  Admittedly not a huge amount of cash and I'm not one to be shy about spending money on my gaming habit.  I just wish game companies would learn that with the advent of the internet, it only makes sense to offer these things free in the "first taste is always free" way of marketing.

I can think of 3 or 4 games I bought based on free quick start rules.  I can think of 3 to 4 times that many games that I haven't bother with because I don't know anything about the rules or the way the game plays and the company doesn't offer a peek at what the deal is.

[ColBosch]

You both might want to go check the Creative Commons license posted down the forums a bit; it could prove enlightening.

[grabula]

I'm familiar with it from Eclipse Phase products.  It actually sort of underlines my point.  Why tell everyone it's ok to share this stuff out for free then make people pay for previews?  The logic doesn't follow.

[ravehnhuhrxt]

Isn't the Lieutenant's Manual availble via Catalyst's bit-torrent, or am I thinking of Eclipse Phase?

[Darrian Wolffe]

It is indeed available via torrent.

From the CBT boards:

Dave has also posted a free (legal) torrent for people to try before they buy

http://catalystgamelabs.com/download/resources/CAT31000a_Leviathans_LtManual.pdf.torrent

but seriously - $3 

As to the question of "why make people pay" - they aren't making you pay.  It's available for free.  What's being said is that if you CHOOSE to give CGL your money for this (and a ridiculously small amount of money, at that), they aren't going to say no.  Myself?  I downloaded it for free via the torrent, and once I had demoed the game at my local venue, went out and downloaded it again at cost because I wanted to support the company.  They made a damn good game, and I think we should support them.  $3 is not an issue.

I should also point out that the difference between "free" and "$3", is significantly less than the difference between "free" and "the amount of money it takes to buy a starter box for AT-43, Warmachine, Warhammer, W40K, Flames of War, etc".  To even try out the vast majority of games (or ANY hobby, for that matter - where's your free trial for a PS3?), in general, you need to shell out between $50-100.  CGL is giving us the opportunity to try out the game for free via the torrent, or for $3 if you want to support the company.  How can you complain about that, given the alternatives?

[EasyEight]

"but seriously - $3"

$6.83, actually. I missed the free torrent, else I would have DL'd that first before buying the primer.

"Right now if you purchased everything "out" for leviathan you'd have paid what 6$ or 7$ us?  Admittedly not a huge amount of cash and I'm not one to be shy about spending money on my gaming habit.  I just wish game companies would learn that with the advent of the internet, it only makes sense to offer these things free in the "first taste is always free" way of marketing."

Yep. Looks like a fun game, from what I've read so far after buying the primer. And this is a two way street. I've already demonstrated that I'm willing to put some skin in the game for this product before its even available -- based on the *promise* that it will be completed. But a lot can happen in a few months, so I hope the company will indeed follow through on its release. So if I've put skin in the game in advance of release by buying their primer products, will this company (from whom I've never bought before) recognize that in some way? For example, Alternative Armies ran their Death in the Snow preview linked to a "buy something now, get something extra" promo offer. That means they recognized that I was advancing them cash on a pre-order, and rewarded it. many other forms have a "members" special advance order deal, or throw in a bennie of some sort. So that's where I'm coming from. For me, this is an unproven company. I like the product concept, love the artwork, the rules look interesting, etc., but have no background with them.

[grabula]

As to the question of "why make people pay" - they aren't making you pay.  It's available for free.

I wasn't aware that it is available free but it makes sense since it follows the Eclipse Phase design.  I'm also not against paying for the product when it comes out, if I like it.

But here's the thing, every place I've seen it advertised I've never seen any mention of it being available free if you want it. What's that about? Why not say 'here it is, free if you want it, or you can click the buy for 1.99$ in order to support our effort'?

I'm just not sure i understand the process as it stands now.  Yesterday I picked up the Battleforce rules quickstart for free from Catalyst, then liked them enough to turn around and purchase the PDF.  I'd do the same for Leviathan if it's a product I like.

Maybe the whole creative commons process is still a work in progress with Catalyst..either way, being able to look at snap shot of the rules free is going along way towards keeping me interested!

[Toolian]

If anyone need me to post a direct download PDF of the basic rules, I can do that, or the little ship expansion.

Though, I would feel comfortable with company permission.

I read the creative commons... but like to hear straight from "THE MAN" 


I need a meatball sub and beer right about now...

[nenechan]

The creative commons license IS explicit permission from the publishers...

[Toolian]

I know. But still feels funny.



The following is a product of Catalyst Games Labs

http://monstersinthesky.com/

Doug Chaffee is responsible for all color and black & white illustrations.
Web Site- http://www.chaffeestudios.com/

J. Lonee is responsible for all orthographics (schematics).
Web Site- http://www.jisforgenius.com/

Basic Rules

http://www.mediafire.com/file/mmnm41mnjyt/Leviathans  Rules 1.pdf

James Fighting Ships

http://www.mediafire.com/file/zywmww3qmmz/James Fighting Ship.pdf


If you like what you see, I strongly encourage you to buy them at the Catalyst Game Labs web site

http://catalystgamelabs.com/




EDITED for legal reasons regarding the CCL

[nenechan]

I know. But still feels funny.

True, it takes a lot of getting used to, especially when people were talking about sharing the PDF openly on the Eclipse Phase forms

[Administration]

I know. But still feels funny.

That feeling is the awesomeness of sharing.

Please -- the CC license gives everyone that takes possession of the files (from someone who is also following the license) specific permissions, and you don't need to ask us again for those permissions: you have 'em, use 'em! :-) Fold Spindle Mutilate and Share!

[grabula]

thanks for putting those up, though I'm getting a 404 error on the James pdf.  I'll look over them this weekend and if I like them, I'll certainly be supporting them with purchases!

[Toolian]

thanks for putting those up, though I'm getting a 404 error on the James pdf.  I'll look over them this weekend and if I like them, I'll certainly be supporting them with purchases!

Thanks for the heads up.

Don't know what was wrong, but it is working for me now. I just re uploaded it.

The correct link is in the above post.