Aircraft Carriers?

[Matsci]

I was wondering if this game is going to let us have our Airborne Aircraft Carrier's?

Before you dive all over me, and say that aircraft carriers are a WWII inventions, I would like to point out a few facts...

1. The first Aircraft launched from a ship occurred in [Drumroll] 1910!
2. Having the carrier be airborn helps solve a few problems, like not having enough launch speed.
3. Having airborn battleships will accelerate research into other aircraft.

[Worktroll]

First, Matsci, welcome to the forums, and the Leviathans universe! Glad to have you aboard.

Secondly, we have given considerable thought to where aeroplanes are goin gto fit into the Leviathans universe. THe short answer is "not much in 1910". TO quote myself:

The way I've looked at it: aeronautical development in 1910 (Levs world) is roughly identical to 1910 (mundane). The tendency to ignore flimsy winged flyers (after all, there's little they can do to harm even an aerial destroyer) is balanced by the fact that electroid is difficult to manufacture and the smallest aerial vessel is destroyer-sized.

The question will be "what niche can an aerodynamic flyer fill?" Remember most of what we think of when we think of WW1 planes only really came into their own in 1917-1918, after years of war-fuelled evolution. In 1910,
- no radios
- no weapons
- no payloads
- not even the concept of aerial bombs

Realistically much of what airplanes did in our mundane world can be done better by Leviathans, at this point in (game) time. That doesn't mean there aren't roles - or people pooh-poohed by the chain of command interested in furthering the cause of aerodynamic flight. In the meantime, the US Sky Fleet does tend to occupy the same niche that the US Army Air Force did; the prestige of the Great White Sky Fleet causing any electrical aviator to have at least as expansive an ego as any mundane-world flyboy. "Wait till you get them, up in the air, boys ..."

W.

On the other hand, as I also like to remind people, the aerial fleets of Leviathan's 1910s aren't fully evolved war machines. There's plenty of room for development.

Lastly, the developers are all pretty much hooked on the ideas of parasite flyers, airborne aircraft carriers, and other wonder-weapons, down the track and at the right time. After all, this is the period of both Thomas Edison and Nikolai Tesla, is it not?

W.

[Tonbo Karasu]

Absolutely, this pair had loads of crazy ideas!  Not to mention their duel to the death with lightning guns in a maze filled with martian carnivores!

Hang on, no, wait.  That didn't happen in real life, did it?  Just the Space 1889 Campaign.

Ahem.

Anyway, I'd also like to point out that it's the age of innovative Italian ship design, They had many ideas that might have worked but didn't see combat.

[Worktroll]

Oh yes. I intend to lock the artists in a room lined with 1960s Ferarris and Lamborghinis before they draw the Italian ships, for one thing.

W.

[purplephoenix]

IIRC, Randall made some remarks about future ship types and levels. The following table is what I recall from it.

LEVEL	DESIGNATION	HEXES
5	Dreadnought Carrier Vessel	4
4	Battleship	4
3	Armoured Cruiser	3
2	Light Cruiser	3
1	Destroyer	2
0	Patrol Boat Fighter	1

[Spence]

Hello all,

Another new guys here.

I just discovered the game and really like what I see.  I just wanted to wanted to stick in my “Oh God please no zoom zooms” comment

Matsci is absolutely right that there is no reason fighter aircraft can’t exist, but all that will do is destroy the outstanding concept.  Carriers and various attack aircraft will do exactly what they did in the real world.  Make the mammoth leviathan useless and obsolete.  Just like the Battleship and Battlecruiser were rendered useless by the real world carrier fleet. 

I’ve played a lot of war games since the late 70’s and pretty much across the board, introduction of fighters into a game, from historical to scifi, pretty much eliminates the Dreadnought/Battlewagon in favor of large launch platforms with clouds of fighters.   

Not that there is anything wrong with clouds of fighters, mind you.  But we already have a dozen games that do ‘clouds of fighters’. 

Leviathan is a cool breath of fresh air for the gamer that wants ‘something different’. . 

Please stay different.

[blackbrunswicker]

I agree about not having aircraft dominate the game to a point. Aircraft certainly shouldn't be a problem at this point in the time line, given their limited development in 1910. However, I'd also like to see that time line evolve as the game continues, and would have no problem with aircraft carriers beginning to dominate as Leviathans heads into the late 30s and early 40s, or perhaps earlier given the naval situation. In this way, players would have a broad range of periods to choose from, depending on their tastes and pay style. You could have an aerial Jutland in 1910 and have your battleships go broadside to broadside, or a Coral Sea with squadron loadouts and targets to worry about. If there's one thing I like, it's player options.

[purplephoenix]

AFAIK, those thoughts of Randall regarding level 5 and level 0 units are far from being made. It was more like a creative brainstorming. I agree, staying with the giant behemoths is some kind of fresh air I really enjoy. 

[Spence]

@blackbrunswicker

Absolutely.  On all points.

I was just suffering from an OMG knee jerk spasm.....


I'm better now   

[TopSergeant]

I think it would be neat to add scouting planes to the capital ships. Instead of float planes they could have the hook-and-ring assembly which the dirigible aircraft carriers used.

Maybe when / if the game evolves to 1920 you can possibly add in Carriers.

-Top

[neko128]

Oh yes. I intend to lock the artists in a room lined with 1960s Ferarris and Lamborghinis before they draw the Italian ships, for one thing.

W.

*snicker*

I have to say, I like the idea of Carriers...  After all, Crimson Skies is possibly my favorite game.  That being said, I strongly prefer the idea of them not coming into their own for a decade or two after the "beginning" of the game.  It only makes sense, anyway, given WWI-era plane technology...

Though that does bring up the interesting question of hybrid technology - sortof an equivalent of an Autogyro using tesla coils and capacitors instead of a helicopter rotor and internal combustion engine.  Or a tesla-coil + capacitor-driven glider.

[ColBosch]

Oh yes. I intend to lock the artists in a room lined with 1960s Ferarris and Lamborghinis before they draw the Italian ships, for one thing.

I just caught this...I assume you mean PICTURES of said Italian supercars. If you have a room "lined with...Ferarris and Lamborghinis" then I am a very, very jealous Colonel.

[Worktroll]

Like this?



On a cheerier note, we're re-arranging at home and I will soon have a room which is lined with bookshelves, except for 2 doors and a window. Moving 3,000 books takes time ...

W.

[Spence]

Well if you do decide to add carriers and heavier than air fighters/torpedo-planes/dive-bombers, please make it in a completely separate add-on/module which can be left out and still not impact following modules.  IE later modules don't mention it and if "Carriers" is expansion 'B', I can buy and play 'A',  'C' and 'D' and not even realize 'B' was published.    As well as not miss or need anything from 'B'. 

I'm just saying.....

[Leaderoforcs]

That... doesn't exactly make sense, from a marketing standpoint.

If you have products A, B, C, and D, and product B is mentioned in products C and D, then more people will have heard of product B, and product B is more likely to sell.

If you instead meant "Carriers are optional from a gameplay perspective," well, anything is, really.  You could choose to play entirely without Carriers at your table.  Or without Destroyers.  Or without any ships but carriers.