Author Topic: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.  (Read 737 times)

Conteshard

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ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« on: May 26, 2010, 04:42:49 AM »
In wargames like this one, but also in Battletech and many other I know and play, the range of the weapons, and lack of LOS blocking, allows a lot of shooters to gang up on one target; this means that you can play a "shoot everything on one target, destroy it or at least cripple it, choose another, repeat until there are no more target".

This is in many case a winning tactic: while performance and firepower of one ship degrade with damage, it doesn't pay to split your fire, in the game or in reality. What makes splitting fire a good thing in reality are two other consideration:

1) if you completely ignore some targets, they are free to shoot you at leasure and more precisely; this is truer of ground battles, but apply also to other types of conflict.

2) this is VERY TRUE of naval warfare up until radar controlled fire: if someone other than you shoots at your target, you can't correct range and bearing with your "splashes", because you can't see which are your shoots and which are not (I immagine that in Leviathans, cannons use time fuses on the ordinance, to see where they go in case of misses).

In Leviathan, the (1) consideration can't be easily simulated, because you chose your target one ship at a time but we could give a d4 bonus (I haven't got the colour codes here) to ships not shot at the previous turn when they shoot this turn.

the (2) consideration is easier: the second shooter at the same target, downgrade his lesser dice by one grade (ex. d6 to d4; if you downgrade a d4, you lose it). The third shooter 2 downgrades, and so on.

What do you think?

Shard

Leaderoforcs

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2010, 12:31:48 PM »
That might work as an effective solution... if Leviathans were still water-bound.  As it is, there are no splashes to correct by, and any additional shots from another craft can't really disrupt firing solutions in that respect.

Additionally, being shot at or no, the methodology of the continuity is that "lots of bullets = more hits," not "Better aiming = more hits."  Until we see some change (fluffwise) in the tactics of Leviathan combat, Whether a crew is being actively fired at or not, they'll be firing as fast as they can, as many times as they can.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2010, 12:33:39 PM by Leaderoforcs »

"Yea verily, though I charge through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am driving a house-sized mass of "**** you." Mammoth Tank Driver, Tiberium Wars.

Can we have flying tanks?

Conteshard

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2010, 06:27:59 PM »
Has I wrote:

"I immagine that in Leviathans, cannons use time fuses on the ordinance, to see where they go in case of misses)."

Meaning you miss, but your shell goes BOOM 20 meters portside of the enemy ---> you correct for it; if two or more ships are shooting at the same target, this help is wasted.

With different altitude and faster target (than a water bound vessel) to consider, the calculations needed to hit anything are not elementary: a bit of adjustment help from previous barrages would be really precious.

Worktroll

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2010, 08:01:39 PM »
Given the armour carried on Leviathans, in the vast majority of cases shells exploding outside - whether through time fuse, or (in decades to come) proximity fuse - are likely to do little more than scratch the paint with handfulls of shrapnel. Penetrating hits are needed to do real damage.

We've seen in the fiction that shells can trail smoke - this isn't as useful as shell splashes, but does provide the main visual cues available to aerial gunners.

Also remember we're dealing with what (to us of the mundane timeline) would be best described as a pre-dreadnought gunnery philosophy - ranges mainly under 2000 yards, and volume/rate of fire preferred over weight of fire.

W.

Conteshard

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2010, 03:56:24 AM »
ranges inside of 2000 yards, and this means "flattish" trajectories, and tracer shells: that will more than do it! ^__^

Ok, understood.

Shard

trboturtle

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2010, 01:18:16 PM »
What would worry me if a Lev fight was to happen over land...where do missed shots go? At sea, it's easy -- they sink. Over land? Could be nasty.....

I would think there might be some sort of safety fuse installed, so the shells explode before they hit the ground....

Craig


Leaderoforcs

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2010, 04:50:43 PM »
Why?  What happens below is of entirely secondary concern in an air battle.

"Yea verily, though I charge through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil, for I am driving a house-sized mass of "**** you." Mammoth Tank Driver, Tiberium Wars.

Can we have flying tanks?

trboturtle

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2010, 05:23:03 PM »
Why?  What happens below is of entirely secondary concern in an air battle.

Only as long as people don't die and buildings don't get blown up..... Heck, a poorly trained crew over their homeland could do more damage to the homeland than the enemy..... :D

Craig


Worktroll

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Re: ganging up is unsportly and ignoring someone is rude.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2010, 05:55:52 PM »
Indeed. The majority of clashes have happened in either reasonably unpopulated areas (eg. the English Channel, over Saharan deserts) or areas where the imperial powers don't get too upset if a few natives are discommoded (eg. central/southern Africa; the Balkans)*. Clashes along the Franco-German border tend to avoid heavily populated areas. It's a period of relatively low-intensity warfare (which I attempted to simulate in the "West of Java" scenario), but tempers are beginning to shorten ...

It does however lead to an "agressive patrol" philosophy. "Better the wreckage lands on their heads", for any given value of "they".

W.

*Just to be clear - I'm not condoning historical imperial attitudes to subjugated peoples. But they were real historical artifacts of that time.