Who do you like?

[Danger UXO]

Being a proud member of the USAF I had to go with the US.  Anybody think we'll see some Lev flattops in the future?  (yes, I know flattops are Navy and the USAF grew out of the Army, but hey, I figure the US Levs will become their own service eventually, alternate historical parallels you know, or whatever you want to call it...)

[ColBosch]

It's certainly a possibility, though I wouldn't be surprised if conventional aircraft end up looking somewhat different than in the real world.

[Danger UXO]

It's certainly a possibility, though I wouldn't be surprised if conventional aircraft end up looking somewhat different than in the real world.

How different I wonder?  Obviously aeronautical engineering principles still apply, so I would expect the general arrangements and concepts to hold, but do you think aircraft design would be significantly altered due to electroid and associated technologies?

[Worktroll]

The way I've looked at it: aeronautical development in 1910 (Levs world) is roughly identical to 1910 (mundane). The tendency to ignore flimsy winged flyers (after all, there's little they can do to harm even an aerial destroyer) is balanced by the fact that electroid is difficult to manufacture and the smallest aerial vessel is destroyer-sized.

The question will be "what niche can an aerodynamic flyer fill?" Remember most of what we think of when we think of WW1 planes only really came into their own in 1917-1918, after years of war-fuelled evolution. In 1910,
- no radios
- no weapons
- no payloads
- not even the concept of aerial bombs

Realistically much of what airplanes did in our mundane world can be done better by Leviathans, at this point in (game) time. That doesn't mean there aren't roles - or people pooh-poohed by the chain of command interested in furthering the cause of aerodynamic flight. In the meantime, the US Sky Fleet does tend to occupy the same niche that the US Army Air Force did; the prestige of the Great White Sky Fleet causing any electrical aviator to have at least as expansive an ego as any mundane-world flyboy. "Wait till you get them, up in the air, boys ..."

W.

[Leaderoforcs]

I'm betting on cheap Electroid Torpedo delivery vehicles.  In both terms of cost and personnel.

[Danger UXO]

The way I've looked at it: aeronautical development in 1910 (Levs world) is roughly identical to 1910 (mundane). The tendency to ignore flimsy winged flyers (after all, there's little they can do to harm even an aerial destroyer) is balanced by the fact that electroid is difficult to manufacture and the smallest aerial vessel is destroyer-sized.

The question will be "what niche can an aerodynamic flyer fill?" Remember most of what we think of when we think of WW1 planes only really came into their own in 1917-1918, after years of war-fuelled evolution. In 1910,
- no radios
- no weapons
- no payloads
- not even the concept of aerial bombs

Realistically much of what airplanes did in our mundane world can be done better by Leviathans, at this point in (game) time. That doesn't mean there aren't roles - or people pooh-poohed by the chain of command interested in furthering the cause of aerodynamic flight. In the meantime, the US Sky Fleet does tend to occupy the same niche that the US Army Air Force did; the prestige of the Great White Sky Fleet causing any electrical aviator to have at least as expansive an ego as any mundane-world flyboy. "Wait till you get them, up in the air, boys ..."

W.

That seems logical.  From the US perspective I would think at the current Leviathans time frame (1910ish) you'd have the US Army most involved in the US Leviathans program and the Great White Sky Fleet.  I say that based on the real life history of the Army's balloon usage dating from the War Between the States through the creation of the Army Signal Corps Aeronautical Division in 1907 (who took “charge of all matters pertaining to military ballooning, air machines, and all kindred subjects.”, from AFPAM 36-2241) and delivery of the first US military aircraft to Ft Myers by the Wright brothers in 1908.

In the Leviathans timeline I assume the Army would get into the Leviathan business a bit before they seriously got involved in aviation in our world (especially trying to preempt the Navy from claiming Leviathans as an extension of their service) though I imagine they'll initially still look at winged flyers in a capacity similar to actual history, primarily as scout/observer units, kind of like cavalry scouts in the sky.  Eventually as you get farther down timeline I imagine we'll start to see the effects of strong proponents of winged flyers like Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold (or their Leviathan timeline equivalents) helping turn winged flyers into the more effective military aircraft similar to what we find in our timeline.  Either way, it should be pretty exciting and I really look forward to seeing how the writers treat the development of fixed wing military aviation and it's interaction with Leviathans.

As for your last bit about the niche the Sky Fleet fills, I have to wonder if they're as misunderstood by "Big Green" as the original military aviators were; one of my favorite bits from the Air Force History section of the Professional Development Guide (one of our study references for enlisted promotion testing), speaking of the state of US Military Aviation at the start of WW I: "General Staff officers
were so out of touch with the requirements of modern aerial warfare that their chief complaint about air personnel was
the disrespectful manner in which flying officers flouted regulations by refusing to wear their cavalry spurs while
flying airplanes."

[Istal Devalis]

I think he was just using the US Army as an example, not outright stating they're a branch of the Army in this time line.

Airplanes: I expect their main role will be their historic one.  Recon.  They dont have the range of Leviathans, but they're cheaper to build, faster, and dont require electroid.  I suspect aerial carriers will follow a similar path to the navy versions for similar reasons.

[Danger UXO]

I think he was just using the US Army as an example, not outright stating they're a branch of the Army in this time line.

Airplanes: I expect their main role will be their historic one.  Recon.  They dont have the range of Leviathans, but they're cheaper to build, faster, and dont require electroid.  I suspect aerial carriers will follow a similar path to the navy versions for similar reasons.

Oh, I know he was using the Army as an example, I was too, I was just trying to make the point that I feel, given how actual history worked out, that it would make sense that the Army would be (or want to be) most involved in the US Leviathans program.   

EDIT: Of course, given that Leviathan design employs modified naval architechture I can also see how the Navy would be the primary service for US Leviathan program...I just can't see the Army with their history of early aviation via balloon usage in the mid 19th century as being willing to simply roll over and let the Navy gain even more power/prestige without some sort of fight.  But I guess we'll see.

[trboturtle]

I could see the US Army being in command of planes over land, while the Navy would have command of plans over the sea. Could be some real disagreements there.....

Craig

[Danger UXO]

I could see the US Army being in command of planes over land, while the Navy would have command of plans over the sea. Could be some real disagreements there.....

Craig

Well, there's a long history of Army/Navy rivalry, and the Leviathans offer a really interesting twist on that, as being flying vehicles they operate over land and sea.  Earlier in the post string mentioned the formation of the Army Signal Corps Aeronautical Division and how, IMHO anyway, that might provide historical precedence for the Army being the US Military arm that would want to start a US Leviathan program.  Of course the counter argument to that is that Leviathan design relies so heavily on naval architecture that the Navy would have a strong claim for being the proper home for a Leviathan program.  Then of course you mix in Worktroll's comments about electrical aviators being a breed apart and think about some of the pioneers of airpower from the USAF's history like Billy Mitchell and Hap Arnold whose agitations and ideas about airpower eventually led to the formation of the Air Force as a seperate service and I can see the US Leviathan Fleet becoming the alternate history version of the USAF, maybe even earlier than the actual formation of the real USAF (1947).  Fun stuff!

[Weirdo]

Here's a thought: What if the Army decided to use electroid technology not to build Leviathans, but super-balloons? (The term's a bit misleading, but bear with me.) Imagine a spotting 'balloon' that uses an electroid tank instead of lifintg gases, but it would still be tethered to the ground. Boilers and generators would be kept on the ground, with electricity wired up the tether to keep the thing afloat. Since you don't need to carry the big boilers and generators, the Lev-balloon could be built much smaller, perhaps small enough that normal Levs would have difficulty targeting them. Alternatively, a destroyer-sized balloon could be built, using the extra mass to mount heavy armor and guns, acting as a defensive monitor to discourage enemy Levs from closing to bombardment range of the ground troops they'd be supporting.

The main flaw I see is the task fo making the ground-bound generators mobile enough to move with Army forces. I'm not sure if 1910 technology had the ability to mount stuff like that on a mobile truck. A train maybe, but not likely a truck.

(As for long-range recon, I could see the Army focusing on the development of fixed-wing craft, while the Navy built Levs.)

[Istal Devalis]

If the Navy ends up being the base military for the US SKy Fleet, I expect to get some wierd rivalry rules springing up, like 'No Leviathan under Navy control can operate over the continental US'

[Danger UXO]

If the Navy ends up being the base military for the US SKy Fleet, I expect to get some wierd rivalry rules springing up, like 'No Leviathan under Navy control can operate over the continental US'

See, that's the kind of along the lines I was thinking too.  The Army, even now, is pretty touchy when it comes to CONUS (continental US) operations and pretty much any land operation (there're even people in the Army now making noise about re-absorbing the Air Force!).  My bet is there'll be some pretty interesting turf wars over control of the US Leviathan program, especially if the writers follow the historical precedence of the Army being involved in aeronautical efforts starting with ballooning in the War Between the States and continuing through creation of the Aeronautical Division of the Signal Corps in 1907 (but I begin to repeat myself...).

[OT Tom]

At the moment I'd say the French as they are fast and have a decent whack.
That said HML Charger will haunt me forever more from last game. 12 hexes range rolling D8s I think!

"FLEEEEE!!!" *Said in his best French accent before going round its flank and smashing it in its blind spots*

[Sartris]

¡Arriba España!